EWGLAM Meeting - parallel session 1
30-Sep-2021
(03:02 PM) Kristian Pagh Nielsen: Wher
(03:03 PM) Kristian Pagh Nielsen: There :-)
(03:22 PM) Emily Gleeson (Met Éireann): Excellent work Peter
(03:22 PM) Emily Gleeson (Met Éireann): Will you be trying this in HARMONIE-AROME cycle 46?
(03:23 PM) Kristian Pagh Nielsen: That's the plan, yes
(03:29 PM) Matthias Raschendorfer: Karl-Ivar, with ICON we had a similar problem sith too much cloud water in the lowermot
(03:34 PM) Matthias Raschendorfer: Karl-Ivar, with ICON we had a similar problem with too much cloud water in the lowermost model layer (in particular over see surfaces). This could be solved through introducing downward cloud-water fluxes at the surface by using a zero-cloud-water condition at the surface.
(03:39 PM) Emily Gleeson (Met Éireann): @Karl-Ivar - did you see any neg impacts of changing the parameters in the general gamma function?
(03:46 PM) rontu: Comment: Karl-Ivar, Matthias - it is probably that there are several possibilities to cure the same problems, tune things, as the approaches are quite simple and general anyway in our parametrizations, all containing (unknown) uncertainties.
(03:50 PM) Dmitrii Mironov: Laura et al.,  what Matthias means is not about tuning. It is just a flux of cloud (fog) water through the surface layer. Just sedimentation may not be enough as the small fog particles have very small Stokes velocity. The flux Matthias means is the physical process, not tuning. The crux here is the lower b.c., which the Dirichlet type, i.e. the fog particle concentration is zero at the surface. the result is the flux that is always downward.  
(03:53 PM) rontu: Thanks Dmitri!
(04:00 PM) Emily Gleeson (Met Éireann): You mentioned that ICE-T has more snow rather than graupel - how does that compare to obs?
(04:01 PM) Emily Gleeson (Met Éireann): I couldn't see the mic!
(04:02 PM) Dmitrii Mironov: Mike, can I switch on mt micro and ask a question? Have no time to type.
(04:02 PM) Mike Bush: yes sure Dmitrii
(04:10 PM) Wim de Rooy: I do not understand why 1D does not take into account advection because it is often prescribed (from obs e.g.)
(04:12 PM) rontu: It does not create advection itself, perhaps that is meant? 1D is pure physics in essence.
(04:14 PM) Ekaterina Kurzeneva, FMI: And what about snow temperature?
(04:19 PM) rontu: Marwin, Is the domination by radiative cooling due to the cold surface temperature with isba dif?
(04:22 PM) rontu: In the middle of boreal forest the concept of surface temperature, especially during winter snow cover is a less well defined thing?
(04:25 PM) Wim de Rooy: interesting and great work/talk!
(04:25 PM) fu  vejr: Bent :  What about the properties of snow  between ISBA-dif and REF  ? isolating effects  in ISBA-dif ?
(04:26 PM) Dmitrii Mironov: Can I make a comment rater than ask a question?
(04:27 PM) Peter Ukkonen (DMI): Thanks for interesting presentations and a chance to talk about my work, now I gotta get back to my paper
(04:28 PM) rontu: In Sodankylä you have an observed temperature profile from -1 m under the surface through the snow layer to the top of the mast in 50 m or so.
(04:31 PM) Carl Fortelius: @ekaterina: The surface heat flux enters as a boundary condition.
(04:35 PM) Ekaterina Kurzeneva, FMI: @carl but then, it is very difficult to make useful conclusions, if this important process is "hidden"
(04:36 PM) Wim de Rooy: agree with dmitrii. calling it turbulnce is somewhat misleading
(04:42 PM) Meto Shapkalijevski: the turbulence term in that equation is just a sensible heat vertical divergence written in gradinet form (parameterized). The connection with the surface (BC for the atm. model) is done via the differences between the lowest atm. level and the surface temperature and multiplied by the exchage coefficient (again parameterized).  E.g. Eq. 4.394 in the SURFEX8.1 documentation
(04:49 PM) Eric Bazile: For GABLS4  there is a LES intercomparison Couvreux et al 2020
(04:50 PM) Dmitrii Mironov: Eric, are GABLES cases heterogeneous at the surface? I am afraid, within GABLS we have diffeent regimes.
(04:52 PM) Eric Bazile: no, it is homogeneous surface ... however with heterogenous surface you increas eteh compelxity with intercation between dynamicas horizontal scale en turbulence and surface parametrization
(04:52 PM) Eric Bazile: sorry i tried to reply too fast with mistake on the beyboard !
(04:53 PM) Dmitrii Mironov: Sue, Eric, it is not simple. :-) But that is what we need.
(04:53 PM) Ekaterina Kurzeneva, FMI: @Meto: yes, but this is for the temperature upper than the surface layer. While most important processes take part within the surface layer.
(04:53 PM) Eric Bazile: it is permanant match (ping-pong) between surface and turbulence
(04:56 PM) Meto Shapkalijevski: @Katya: the z-coordinate in the equation has lowest value at 11 m (lowest one); and this is were the analysis was provided as far as I could see.